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Paddy: at 30 years old, to 33 years old, you did. Your flag in the ground, life changing. trip and there's somebody else who did some pretty big shit from 30 to 33. And that person was Jesus Christ. Now I don't know if this makes you Outdoorsy Gay Jesus, but I am just gonna put that on you.

Mikah: Paddy, youu just came up with the headline for this podcast, Outdoorsy Gay Jesus, and, and it shall be.

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Paddy: PADDY VO:

I am a pretty crummy sleeper. At best, I get somewhere between 4 to 6 hours of nightly slumber. Sometimes though, like a couple nights ago, I bank a whopping 90 minutes. Praise be to coffee.

I wish I could blame it on my recent sleep apnea diagnosis. But my soft palate being a lazy jerk is not the real culprit here. [00:01:00] It’s my brain’s nocturnal review of my life’s many moments of embarrassment, the social gaffs I keep filed away in the caverns of my cranium.

It starts out seemingly harmless, like the time I walked into the chandelier at my homecoming date's house when I was 14. Smacked it so hard the thing swung around like a disco ball. But the memories invariably get heavier, as I mull over my drunken 20s, and the moments when my character was put to the test and I faltered.

There are things we keep so hidden we can’t put words to them, as if the breath would bring them back to life. Maybe we let our parents down, crushed the heart of our spouse or child, failed to speak up when someone we love needed us most. Whatever the situation, shame is a fire that we too often stoke with the timber of [00:02:00] our heart.

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The stories we tell ourselves become our reality, and we drag shame through that reality like an anchor. But who would we be if we could unchain ourselves from that shame? We might be more like Mikah Meyer, an endurance athlete and the first person to visit all 419 National Parks sites on a single continuous journey.

I met Mikah last spring at the 5Point Film Festival in my hometown of Carbondale, Colorado. I chatted with him there after he premiered his film, Canyon Chorus, which is a beautiful tale about the power of mentorship set against a multi-day raft trip on the Green River, through Desolation Canyon in Utah.

I've learned a lot about Mikah since then, like the fact that he likes to run across whole states, and not the small ones. Ya know, states like Minnesota. In addition to his athletic accomplishments, Mikah is [00:03:00] a tireless advocate for the LGBTQ+ community and the founder of the �����ԹϺ��� Safe Space project and the group Queers for Christ. Also, he has the signing voice of a Greek Siren.

But the most amazing thing about Mikah is how persistently filled with joy he is. It's a joy that only comes when you've unburdened yourself from the weight of shame. It's how he unburdened himself--and the role that his time outdoors played in that process--that I found most inspiring, and I think you will, too.

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Mikah: I'm ready. Let's rock and

Paddy: First things first. Burnt Toast. What's your last humbling and or hilarious moment outside?

Mikah: I'm training for a marathon right now and my legs hurt really bad and I was on a dating app and some guy said that he worked for a Korean spa

so like, why don't we meet at your Korean spa? And he was like, well. You know, that Korean spas are all naked, [00:04:00] right? so it'll be a naked first date. And I said, okay, I'm fine with that.

And this past Sunday, I ran 22. 22 miles. As I was doing my final mile, he texted me He's like I'm too nervous. I can't do this and I'm like bro. I am so ready to soak in a Korean spa and you are canceling on me like come on So lesson learned if you're gonna do a first date at a Hot Springs do it at a non naked hot springs or spa, and they're way more likely to show up.

Paddy: Mikah, you have just set the bar for Burnt Toast. Thank you very much. Ok, let's get into it!

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The three year road trip the first thing that popped in mind when I heard about this is, How many gas station hot dogs did you eat I know how I eat during, like, a weekend road trip, and it's not great.

Mikah: My gas station equivalent hot dog was, at the time it was called the Wendy's 4 for 4. [00:05:00] And it was like a hamburger, a four piece chicken nuggets, a small fry, and a drink for 4. And let me tell you, as somebody who had no sponsors and was living off a shoestring and a prayer, that Became my diet, which caught up with me, and by two years into the road trip, I was the heaviest I'd ever been in my life. Cause I was just eating crap the whole time.

And that's what got me into running too, is I was like, I can't join a sports league, I can't join a gym, I'm never in the same city more than like a few days. So the only workout I could do was running, and I'm like the kid that could never run the mile in school without getting a side ache.

And by kid, I mean like K 12, college, master's degree, 20s, like, could not run. But I had no choice, like, this was the only way, , to get back into the body I wanted. And so I, I got super into running, and now I'm running marathons all the time, and I'm one of those crazy runners that never knows when to stop.

Paddy: Well, the goal of the National Parks, , road trip was not to, [00:06:00] Get a heart murmur the goal of, , visiting all of the National Park sites was , uh, it was twofold, right?

It was to set a new world record and the second part of it was to honor the memory of your father. Road trips are a really good time to get a lot of thinking done. You have a lot of time with the steering wheel, , and just kind of like spacing out.

How did that time help you process the loss of your dad?

Mikah: Well, it was huge. I Actually took my first ever independent road trip Just a few days after his funeral when I was 19 years old and when you talk about like processing behind the wheel that was it because He had cancer all through my high school years. So like I was taking finals during my junior year, like while he was in surgery, getting his esophagus cut in half.

And it was like, I'm trying to take my Spanish test. , so it was a, it was a hard three years of high school. And then he was in like pretty intense hospice for his final [00:07:00] year. We were on seizure watch for him. He was at our house with all his doctors and nurses coming. And so it was just a lot.

And so to just like physically separate myself finally as an adult, as a 19 year old and hit the road and just like remove myself from sort of that space that was just like cancer and death for so long

Paddy: Mm hmm.

Mikah: and hit the wide open spaces of the prairie, it, I didn't realize that at the time, but it's like it created the physical space that my body and my mind needed to create the mental space.

in me that would allow me to start to process what had happened, what life was going to look like going forward, and ultimately how I could still live a life where I felt like my dad was part of it, even if he wasn't physically around. And because my dad always loved road trips, that kind of became my way to connect with him posthumously. So every year I would do one road trip. And like, as I did those road trips , and met friends around the country, and they [00:08:00] said, you know, why are you doing this road trip? I would tell them like, well, my dad passed away at 58. He didn't get to retire. None of us is guaranteed to make it to 81 or 82 or whatever the average male age is these days.

So like, I just want to do something in case I die young. And I just realized how many of my peers, like, it helps us get through school, but like we're sold this lie that we're all going to live to our 80s.

Paddy: Mm hmm.

Mikah: And that is so not the case. Obviously, it wasn't the case for my dad. And he, like, did everything right.

You know, like, he had a job he loved. He was saving for retirement. He and my family had built their retirement dream home in Florida, and everything was lining up to, like, live that American dream. And then, it was taken from him unexpectedly by cancer.

And so, I just really wanted to do something. To sort of shake my friends and be like no like you're not guaranteed to get to retire and they weren't getting it with Just my little week long road trips every year So I was like I have to put it on steroids and do it when I turn 30 like at an age that feels [00:09:00] Monumentous when you're in your late 20s, you're like, oh my god, I'm gonna turn 30.

My life is gonna be over. It's not it's not

Paddy: Yeah.

Mikah: But it just felt like the right time

Paddy: From the outside looking in, to me, , the three main pillars of your personhood are a Christian, an outdoors person, and a gay man. Do you feel like there's a friction or a tension between these buckets of your identity? Do they complement one another?

Mikah: You know, I don't feel like there's a friction or identity, but I'll tell you who does feel that way pretty much the whole world. Um, you know, yeah, I mean, there's so many haters who say that gay people make being gay our whole personality and I'm like, well, it's just because we're trying to I'm going to help you see us as equals.

And if you would just see us as equals from the get go, then I could make being an outdoorsman my whole personality.

Not to get like super deep and spiritual with you right away, but

My dad was a preacher he was the pastor at America's largest Lutheran campus ministry and at one point won the award for being the best Lutheran campus Pastor in the country and when you're the [00:10:00] pastor's kid Everybody asks you you're gonna grow up and become a preacher like your old man

Paddy: Mm.

Mikah: let me tell you, I always answered with the same answer, which was, heck no.

And I said, heck, because I was a good pastor's

Paddy: Nice. Nice.

Mikah: Honestly, the beautiful thing about it is like my Christian friends always made fun of me for being gay and my gay friends always made fun of me for being Christian. So when you're constantly living in a world that tells you like, you shouldn't exist or you don't fit in, it teaches you a lot about empathy and about seeing other people who kind of the world says are not good enough or not cool enough or not smart enough or don't fit the stereotypes or don't fit the mold or are rocking the boat in the wrong way. There's probably some love that you're not seeing there, and it helps you see that.

Paddy: In terms of the intersection of, outdoors person and your faith, you, , You wrote something that really stood out to me in reference to your parks road trip. And you wrote that, If the experience of my parks journey has taught me anything, it's [00:11:00] that one doesn't need to be plastered on the headlines or across social media to allow someone to feel closer to God and their true selves. Why? And how?

Mikah: Dang, Paddy, you did your research on this. You know, I went into this National Parks journey with an idea of what an outdoorsman was. , you know, it's like Bear Grylls, and I was trying to find sponsors. And every time I looked at van life stuff, it was just like straight white couples. Like that was all I could find getting sponsored to do this.

And so like, I went into this trip with a very clear idea of like, this is what an outdoorsy person is. And I do not fit that mold. I do not fit that mold because I'm gay. I do not fit that mold because I'm from Nebraska, one of the flattest States in the country. I do not fit that mold because like. I didn't go camping as a kid.

My dad worked on the weekend, so I never did the Boy Scout thing. I never did the weekend camping trip. Like, I did not fit any of those molds of what like outdoors advertising or the outdoors culture told me you had to be to enjoy the [00:12:00] outdoors. And then I actually went and I did it and I did it in a way that no human had ever done before.

And I realized that I fit so much into that and all of us. No matter if we look like the model in the Patagonia ad or not, we all fit in.

Paddy: Do you feel like the, road trip and going after the record taught you something about your faith that you didn't know? Taught you something about the outdoors that you didn't know,

Mikah: yeah, so, my dad totally got me posthumously because if you ever talk to a Lutheran and you say the word vocation, their eyes are going to light up and they'll get like a little hot sweat because it's like one of the main tenants of our faith is that there's a theme in our lives called vocation.

What a vocation is, is it's not just a paycheck. It's not just a job, but it's your life's calling. It's the place where your greatest talents meet the world's greatest needs. And when you find that intersection and they come together, that's your life's vocation.

And so, this trip allowed me to find my life's vocation. Like, I left on this park's journey [00:13:00] thinking I had to hide that I was gay to be able to fundraise. I had to hide who I was to get the interest of the outdoors industry. And in actuality, it was Telling people about who I was, being openly gay and an outdoorsman that ended up providing people who wanted to donate and saved the journey.

And it showed me that there were so many people out there who needed to see an openly gay outdoorsman to help them be that person and enjoy the outdoors. So this park's journey taught me my life's vocation, which is being that role model that I never saw. And actually, as I later learned, , Martin Luther, the founder of our church and denomination, used to say that you don't find your vocation by studying your navel or listening to your innermost thoughts.

You find your vocation by listening to the calls of the world and the way the world is telling you to use your talents to meet their needs. And like this was quite literally thousands of people sending me messages on social media and emails [00:14:00] saying. Hey, I'm a lesbian park ranger and I don't see any representation.

Hey, I'm a gay kid and I love to hike and I don't see myself. Like they were telling me what they needed me to do.

Paddy: When you would get those messages, would you feel, a sense of duty, a sense of calling? Was it simultaneously like, almost like a sense of, oh my God, I better not screw this up.

Mikah: Yeah,

There's a song from the musical into the woods that is sung by the witch and it's called children will listen And the whole point is basically like Kids are always listening to what you're saying and you're doing so like be careful the role model you're providing them because they're listening and they're watching and they're going to act that way.

\ the first year of the three year journey was really cool. I had a boyfriend who came along. And after a year of living in a 70 square foot van together he was like, I love you but I can't do this anymore I'm out. So then year two was

Paddy: I can smell the Wendy's wrappers, I am out of here.

Mikah: Honestly though, he was like way too much Wendy's I'm out. But year two was like, I'm gonna get halfway. I'm gonna like do this. So there was all that motivation and by [00:15:00] year three, like I was, I was gassed. I was exhausted. I was so done. But I'm like, I can't let that 12 year old from Indiana down.

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Paddy: One of the interesting things. about the road trip was that it was largely funded by churches and church groups that you spoke at during the trip. You have often talked about how you felt the need to go back into the closet to secure the funding for that trip.

And I think this might be a surprise to people listening who are of the, you know, super crunchy granola kumbaya. outdoor community, is that you have framed that pressure to appear straight as coming more from the outdoor community than from the Christian community. Does that surprise folks when you tell them that?

Did it surprise you when you set out for this?

Mikah: it didn't surprise me that the outdoorsy community was not, , welcoming of LGBTQ plus people because I'd grown up like, never seeing any role models, never seeing anyone like me. It [00:16:00] surprised people who work in the industry. Like, in 2017 And 2018 I talked to like major major brands who you've all heard of and I talked to their head of corporate communications, their marketing manager, like the people with the power and I would tell them like, Hey, like male male households earn 63, 000 a year, more on average than heterosexual couples, according to the IRS.

Hey, every major league sports team is marketing to queer couples because we're less likely to have kids and more likely to be able to attend a Tuesday night game and buy beer and merch. Hey, there's a trillion dollars of purchasing power from this demographic. Like, you should really market to us. And, like, no joke, the same response I got from all of them was, it would offend too many of our customers if we put an openly gay guy in an ad.

It's just not worth it to us financially. Like our customers are so homophobic that we can't do this.

Paddy: That sucks on so many levels .

How was that not debilitating? How did you not [00:17:00] stop the trip there and then?

Mikah: Because of the members of the queer community who love the outdoors, who were writing me being like, this means so much to me that you're doing this, like, that's what fueled me. But it's super fascinating what you say, because, I have met a lot of people who are part of the outdoors culture and I tell them this and they're like, Oh man, I don't feel that way.

Like, I wish my industry wasn't that way. Like, what can I do to change? So there are a lot of great people. It's not like a blanket statement that everybody in the outdoors community is homophobic. This is just like what the powers that be have been marketing.

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as I did those road trips sort of the funniest thing in the world happened in that, like, I'd only saved up like maybe one fifth of the amount of money it was going to take to pull off this park's journey. I do not come from money and I was running out of money on this park's journey.

I had like a month's worth of money left and was going to have to quit. And then by a bunch of really. Wild cosmic fortunate circumstances. You call it what you want. I ended up being invited to be the guest singer and preacher at churches all [00:18:00] around America, and I ended up being the guest singer and preacher at 113 churches around the country on this three year journey.

And they say that my dad is responsible for sending over 100 of his students to seminary to become pastors one

Paddy: Uh huh.

Mikah: And I joke and I say, Ladies and gentlemen, for Larry Myers final act. He got his own son who swore he would never become a preacher to be a traveling minister for three years. Like, he's up there like, I got you.

You tried not to and I got you. But let me tell you, those churches, they funded the whole Parks journey. And I, every week, I put out a basket and every week I got enough money to keep going.

So, like, take that for what you will.

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Paddy: In addition to the gigantic road trip and your commitment to, pushing the needle on the culture of the outdoors, you have done a lot of large, outdoor projects. You have run across Minnesota, [00:19:00] Nebraska, Liechtenstein, Mississippi, and you've biked across Oregon. what do these Big projects taking them on. What does it do for you? Why do you do them?

Mikah: For me, it's not so much about an adrenaline rush as it is just like a desire to not live in fear. And, and especially going back to my dad, to not live a life that if I got cancer tomorrow and died a year from now that I would look back and be like, Oh man, I kicked the can down the road and I waited too long.

And I wish I would have done those things. Like, what did they say? You don't regret. People on their deathbed don't regret the stuff they did. They regret the stuff they didn't do. And so for me it's, it's less of like, I need to do some crazy epic adventure that, you know, pushes me to the limits and maybe makes me die.

I'm like, I just wanna do fun rad shit. Like me. Memorable stuff like the run across Minnesota, I got in the biggest fight I've ever gotten with, with my childhood best friend, the run across Mississippi. [00:20:00] My boyfriend, uh, cheated on me and left me at the end of that trip.

Paddy: oh my god

Mikah: the run across Nebraska, I, like, sunk into a deep depression because I was so lonely. And even as I tell you these shitty things that happened, I'm smiling. If you can't see this, because this is a podcast, because amidst those struggles, those, like, hardships that happened, were some of the most fun, fulfilling moments of my life.

Like, some of the most unique, memorable experiences. And so when you ask, like, why these big epic adventures, I think it's because, like, we don't remember the Tuesday , filling out our checkbook. We don't remember, like, the Thursday standing in line at Costco. But I, sure as heck, remember being in my Winnebago RV and surviving a massive thunderstorm in the Minnesota plains with my boyfriend sitting in the front seat, like, Why are we doing this?! Because those are the moments that, like, Type 2 Fun, you look back and you're like, Dude, we lived!

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PADDY VO: Mikah [00:21:00] Meyer is all about L-I-V-I-N. But how did her learn to live free of the shame he carried for so long? He went on a multi day river trip with his firends and his mentor of course. That story after the break.

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Paddy: You turned another giant trip of yours, into a beautiful film, Canyon Chorus, which I saw at Five Point, , last spring. It was one of my favorite, Films of the entire festival. And it's a multi day raft trip down the green river through desolation Canyon in Utah with three pals and Larry, lovable Larry, who is your mentor.

He's so great. Larry is your mentor and your, , former choir director. What was the goal of the trip in the film? Ha ha

Mikah: Um, to find Larry a wealthy husband. No, [00:22:00] it, The goal was to think more about Larry in the sense of like, I auditioned at the University of Memphis for Larry, my eventual choir director, three months before my dad died. And then Larry got me the full tuition scholarship to the University of Memphis.

Three months later, my dad passed. Three months later, I showed up at the University of Memphis and met Larry, who then like basically took over the father figure role in my life. And so for me, it's just been so important for me to tell this story of mentorship. Um, because I think that's something we all can understand in our lives, whether we're gay or straight, whether we are whatever demographic you want to pick, like, I think we all are like floating through this world and this life trying to figure it out.

And it's just nice to find someone who you're like, dude, I love the way you did life. I respect the crap out of you. How do I get to be more like you and live a life like you lived? And I think we all could benefit from finding someone like that.

Paddy: It is such an incredible film and it [00:23:00] connected with me on, on so many levels. And you know, I don't know what it's like to be a closeted gay man. But I do know what it's like to carry a secret that you convince yourself is shameful.

One that creates a fortified and protected vacancy within. During the campfire scene in the film, which is probably my favorite scene, you all talk about the need to live life as your authentic self, but how difficult it is to break down the walls you built to protect yourself for years. And to me, That scene gets to the core of what this film is about.

To me, the film is an examination of and a celebration of the freedom from shame. When and how did you recognize that the walls you built were no longer fortifications of safety, but were in fact the bars of a prison you were building around yourself?

Mikah: That's a great question. Well, [00:24:00] I want to start off by just acknowledging what you said and thanking you for it because you that night at our world premiere at five point you affirmed like every single reason we made this film because on on the surface you see this film and you're like, Oh, it's a bunch of gay dudes like that doesn't relate to me.

But like we specifically were like, we want to tell the story about mentorship and about loving yourself. And it's not, it, it is a story for a gay audience, but it's also not just a story for a gay audience. So when, like, when you came up and you told us what you did, I turned to Larry, I was like, we did it.

Like, this was, this was our goal. Like, to, to tell a story that any human being could see themselves and, and relate to. And so, like, the fact that you felt that means the world to me. And to anyone who watches this film, I think they'll feel the same way as you. Like, They're going to recognize some part of themselves that they felt shame about and that they hid,

I grew up genuinely believing. And I went to, like, a fairly liberal Christian church, when you, like, look at the spectrum of Christianity in America. [00:25:00] And even then, I grew up believing that, I could pray my way to being straight.

And that, like, when I went to college, I would, like, meet a girl that God had made for me, who would then take away these sinful thoughts from my brain, and I would, like, magically look at her, and suddenly be attracted to women.

Paddy: uh,

Mikah: And so, I, I left Nebraska, which is a pretty Christian state, and I went to school in Memphis, which is the Bible Belt.

And, uh, you might think that that is not the place for a little closeted gay Christian boy to go, but actually, because I, like, dove into the deep end, I had multiple professors, including Larry, who had like gone to conversion therapy or like married women and had children because their pastors told them like the moment the baby's born, God will, flip you.

, the moment you get married, you'll be straight. , and so I saw like these actual human beings who had done all the steps that I told it took to fix myself. And they were like, guess what? Didn't work. I'm still gay. It's just another example of mentorship [00:26:00] like of these, these weren't the people whose life I thought I wanted to live and now I look at them and I'm like, dude, they're badasses because they like walked through the fire and came out stronger. That was when the wall came down for me was just like seeing sort of the lie that I've been told my whole life, seeing it amplified and realizing that it actually doesn't work that way.

Paddy: Do you feel that freedom from shame every day today?

Mikah: I often tell people I am now gay all over the internet. So, it's kind of hard to feel shame for being gay when you're gay all over the internet. I've been out for like a decade, but I wasn't what I call gay on Google. once I started like sharing this part of myself publicly. I was no longer able to pass as a straight man or hide. And honestly, it was the most freeing thing ever. Yep, I'm gay!

like, It's out there. It's out there in the world. I don't have to wonder anymore. Does this person know I'm gay? Will they hate me if they find out? I'm like, if they don't know, then they haven't done their research. And if they're here [00:27:00] kicking it with me, then they don't care.

Paddy: So for you then what is the opposite of shame or what is the antidote to shame?

Mikah: Gosh um, I don't want to sound like a hippie when I say this, but I'm going to quote one of my, well, no, I'm, no, I'm going to quote, I'm going to quote one of my spiritual leaders, Whitney Houston, when she says, the greatest love of all is learning to love yourself. I'm serious. listen to

Paddy: Song, this is a great song.

Mikah: And she sings the crap out of it

Paddy: So, the antidote to shame is 91 Peak Whitney Houston.

Mikah: It's, it is, it's cheesy, but I really think it is, it's learning to love yourself and whether that's seeing examples of yourself, like I did with my professors, seeing examples of yourself, like all of these queer outdoors people saw in me or like whatever your hangup is.

I think if you can see people who allow you to be yourself and learn to love yourself, then. That's the opposite of shame.

Paddy: I think very often the difference between tragedy and comedy is community [00:28:00] perspective Laughter and friendship to me are the ingredients and also the soundtrack to a happy life. They're integral to healing especially after years of carrying A secret burden, but fighting past the voice in our heads that tells us to keep a secret hurt to ourselves. To me, it can very often seem impossible. When I watch this film, I see someone, or a group of people, who have done that. And so, when you think about your healing process how has friendship and mentorship helped you achieve freedom and joy?

Mikah: Yeah, well, I'm super glad you bring up the joy, Paddy. Um, because,

Paddy: a joyful film.

Mikah: It is! I t

Paddy: you have fun when you go outside, man.

Mikah: We, uh, we kind of modeled it after a Ted Lasso episode. Like, the goal is that you'll laugh and cry, and then laugh and cry, and then be like, Why am I laughing and crying? But I'm laughing and crying. I'm still laughing and crying!

Paddy: Kick them m in the heart and give him a hug.

Mikah: Yes! I think there are so many [00:29:00] stories about, , I'm going to say underrepresented people and not underrepresented as in like that we don't exist, but just like our stories don't get told as often.

So many stories about queer people are just depressing.

It's like, these people got murdered for being gay. They got AIDS and died. Like, their family kicked them out of the house. It's just sad. And there are a lot of sad parts about being queer. But on the flip side, when you've gone through all that pain, and you've walked through the fire, then you really appreciate joy, and when you get a space like nature, where there's nobody to judge you, and you have the opportunity to feel joy unencumbered by the, what the world tells you you have to feel or be shameful of, then bro, you're gonna let that joy explode

Paddy: And which is very apparent in, the film and friendship and mentorship are the, the themes that run throughout that. And, , I, I kind of feel like it, goes both ways for you and Larry.

Mikah: You have this like symbiotic mentorship. It's not like mentor mentee. You both are mentoring each other, as an outdoor mentor [00:30:00] yourself, what do you feel is the most important thing that you wanted to show Larry during this trip? .

I will have never done as much for Larry as he has done for me, even just by his simple existence and being a role model.

Mikah: But, I hope that I'm able to help Larry remember that it's not just about being that role model. It's not just about looking perfect all the time for the next generation. You're also allowed to have fun yourself.

Paddy: In the film, Larry says that he doesn't understand why you consider him a mentor because all he did was love you and tell you that everything is going to be okay, which like side note is huge for any human being to hear.

Mikah: Mm hmm.

Paddy: Do you think those two ingredients though are the number one characteristics of being a mentor?

Mikah: Yes and, , later in the film, Larry says, uh, I don't know what I did. I really don't know what I did with Micah. All I did was say, yes, I believe in you, Micah. And then he pauses and he goes, [00:31:00] and I'm proud of you

Paddy: Ugh, which is like, your heart just explodes.

Mikah: And I just think about myself and all those queer kids who never heard their parents say, You know, I love you as you are, no matter, I love you even though you're gay, or I love you because you're gay. I believe in you and I'm proud of you, and I think even non gay people, like, we all can know that feeling of just wishing our parents, or our teachers, or the people we idolize and look up to, if they said to us, like, I believe in you and I'm proud of you, like, it would crush us,

Pause Pause Pause

Paddy: mentorship is really about service.

It's otherness, and it's a commitment to amplifying the lives of others, maybe not smoothing out the path, but preparing someone for the trudge of a technical trail of life. Is that your mission?

Mikah: I mean, in a roundabout way, yes. I grew up watching Travel Channel non stop, and if I would have seen an openly gay host of a travel show and taught me that like I could go and do [00:32:00] that for a living and that could be my career and that could be my life, like, boom, I probably would have come out of the closet a whole lot sooner because I wouldn't have thought, oh, I have to hide this part of myself to get to do the things I want to do with my life.

It's really just as simple as that is like providing for someone else, the ability to see their future in you is radical.

As adventurous outdoorsy people we all know that feeling. Like we all know the joy. Even if it's just as simple as like coming down from the peak of the trail and saying to the people who are coming up, hey it's just another mile.

Or like hey it's right around the corner. Or you're over halfway. Or like sharing at the bar the story of our epic ski trip or epic rafting trip. Like, I think we all know what that feels like to be excited by somebody else who's interested in the same stuff we are and this like innate human desire to just want to help them.

Paddy: Yeah.

Mikah: No matter what side of the mentor mentee relationship you're on. And there's a lot of joy from it because if [00:33:00] you're the mentee, you're learning and you're gaining all this knowledge and experience and you're feeling seen by somebody who's showing you that you can live the life you want.

And as the mentor, you're getting the joy of being like, dude, somebody else is into the same trail I'm into the same stuff I'm into, those are sort of the mentor things that I feel now is seeing other people in outdoors industry now who are openly gay and like working with brands or in ads like, dude, like Larry walked so that I could run so that they could prance. And that's cool.

Paddy: That is beautiful.

Mikah: If we could all just have the freedom to get out of our own way and to, to stop thinking that, um, we're not enough for whatever activity or event or club, then we would all have a lot more freedom and a lot more fun.

Paddy: Music fade up here

beautiful thing that you exemplify is that when someone is freed from the weighty burden of what they convince themselves is a deeply shameful secret, this thing [00:34:00] that used to feel like a death sentence if it were to get out is somehow magically, beautifully transformed into.

The connective tissue with others, it becomes the greatest tool that you have to build community to amplify others lives and serve others lives. And I'm wondering if now when you pray, rather than Asking God, Dear God, please make me straight. Let me find the wife. Let me have a baby. Let me, jettison these feelings and these urges that I feel ashamed of.

When you pray today, do you now thank God? For who you are for your homosexuality and now for the ability to help others through this thing

Mikah: Paddy, have you ever thought about going into the ministry and being a preacher?

Paddy: Uh, um, no, I have [00:35:00] not as a as a recovering catholic, uh, I have not

Mikah: let this pastor's kid tell you, you have a gift for ministry and preaching right there, Paddy, because you just brought us home. Uh, yeah, I mean, you, you said it better than I'm about to. There are many times where I'd say like, thank you, God, for making me gay because it has led to so many incredible experiences in my life.

It has introduced me to so many wonderful people. And yes, a lot of that has been through trauma bonding and like finding community through our shared struggles. But it's also really exciting. Like, okay, Larry was He was born in 1948, so that means he was 21 years old in 1969 when the Stonewall Uprising happened.

Within Larry's one lifetime, we have gone from like having sex in sewers, because that's the only place gay people could meet safely, to gay marriage being legal, like in one human life. And so, I'm excited because I feel like in my own niche, [00:36:00] like in the outdoors industry and culture, in this, in this community, when I If I am blessed to reach Larry's age, 76, when I look back at my life, I'll be like, dude, I did stuff like my life mattered.

I helped change things for the better. And I think about Larry's life too. And like him being able to look back and be like, look at everything that I did with my life. I always say to Larry, like, why do you live in Memphis still? So many people still treat you horribly because you're gay. Why don't you move somewhere where people are nicer to you and you'll have an easier life and everything will just be better.

More fluff and less hard. And he said, because think how much worse it would be in Memphis if I wasn't here.

Paddy: God Larry

Mikah: Right?

Paddy: Fudgesicles, man. God, Larry, your heart. How does his heart fit inside of his body? Because it is enormous.

Mikah: If you see him, you'll see he has really big pecs, so he definitely is is fit. That's I think you're you nailed it, Paddy. It's his heart is [00:37:00] pushing

Paddy: Yeah. Oh my god.

Music fin the clear for a beat

Mikah: It sucks to have struggles. Like, am I hurt right now that I got dropped by all the brands, not because of anything I did or like losing my qualifications, but because of outside forces like that, that hurts, that sucks.

And also like, there's something about being like, I'm walking through the fire, I'm doing the hard thing. And at some point I'll look back and be like, I made a change for the better. And in some weird way, that makes it all the more worth it and all the more fun. If life was just easy, it'd be a really boring story.

There's a whole reason why stories have ups and downs and twists and turns, and we don't just watch a story that's good, good, good, good, good. Because if life was just easy all the time, it'd be pretty boring.

Paddy: If somebody were to come up to you and said, Micah, I want to transform this hurt in me into a tool I use to connect with people, to build community. How do I do that? What advice would you [00:38:00] give them?

Mikah: Well I would hand them the two CD, now I guess Spotify, Whitney's Greatest Hits album. And I would say, you know, lesson number one is to go home and listen to this, with noise canceling headphones in a dark room, and then come back to me, , and I would say, what's your greatest fear, and how can you lean into that, and how can you walk through that, and .Not be afraid of it because like my basically biggest fear on my three year parks journey was if America knows I'm gay They will never crowdfund to this park's journey. I will never get to honor my dad and Like the only reason that people donated was after I came out and shared that thing I was most afraid of did people say, Hey, here's 20 bucks.

My gay son really needs to see you finish. Hey, here's 100. It's really important that this role model exists. The thing that I was most afraid of is what saved me.

PUASE PAUSE PAUSE, [00:39:00] let that hammer line sink in

Music in the clear for a bit, fade out

Paddy: All right. The final ramble. One piece of gear you can't live without.

Mikah: I am covered in rainbow trees, which is my outside safe space symbol that I made, which is meant for allies to wear when they're in outdoor, rural and active places to indicate that they are an LGBTQ plus ally.

I do not go outdoors without it.

Paddy: Instead of a shameless plug, we're going to call that a prideful plug. Um, uh, best outdoor snack.

Mikah: I love Larabars. I eat them all the time. Breakfast, , late night snack.

I keep some in my car.

Paddy: What is your hottest outdoor hot take?

Mikah: people are sheep. And they go to the same places they see on Instagram that the pretty blonde influencer girl like spins in a dress at and they do the same Copy paste experience

Paddy: Very frustrated to find out that I am but a, but a wee baby lamb.

Micah. Thank you, dude. This has been a great conversation. I feel like I could, chat with you all day long, [00:40:00] especially like about, , faith , and theology and how that shows up in the outdoors. and

Mikah: Was that, Pastor Paddy? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear, you're starting a church?

Paddy: I'm

Mikah: Oh, oh, it's a pod, it's a podcast church where you talk about faiths and the outdoors?

Paddy: The church of, latter day mustache.

Mikah: Paddy Day Saints.

Paddy: exactly.

OUTRO

PADDY VO: Mikah Meyer is an adventurer, performer, and advocate. You can watch his film, Canyon Chorus, on Youtube. And you can follow along with his adventuring on Instagram at MikahMey, that's M-I-K-A-H-M-E-Y. And in case you're wondering yes, Mikah is working on a feature-length sequeal to Canyon Chorus.

Mikah: I have everything ready to go. I have all the film dates, I have the cast, everything is ready to make this amazing film, , about America's National Parks. and release it in 2026 in time for America 250, our 250th birthday. The only thing I don't have is the money. So if you're listening to this and you work for an outdoors brand or a family foundation or you're a [00:41:00] philanthropist and you liked Canyon Chorus call me, because we are ready to tell another amazing story through film and all we need is the money.

PADDY VO: The �����ԹϺ��� Podcast is hosted and produced by me, Paddy O'Connell. But you can call me PaddyO. Storytelling support and emotional weight vest provided by Micah Abrams. Music and Sound Design by Robbie Carver. And booking and research by Maren Larsen.

The �����ԹϺ��� Podcast is made possible by our �����ԹϺ��� Plus members. Learn about all the extra rad benefits and become a member yourself at �����ԹϺ���Online dot com slash pod plus.